Talk:Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople

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Arms: replacement with png

What is the rationale for replacing the SVG coats of arms with inferior-format PNG files? I oppose this move. SVG can easily be resized large or small with no loss in resolution. PNG is fixed-resolution. Elizium23 (talk) 21:25, 24 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Leader of "the" or "many"?

@SilentResident: please point to the discussion which established consensus for the position that the EP is the spiritual leader of all Eastern Orthodox Christians worldwide. Please provide recent sources from the past 6 years which indicate this pan-Orthodox recognition. Elizium23 (talk) 10:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Elizium23, the wording you tried to replace, [1] was there for more than four years, thus an WP:IMPLICITCONSENSUS developed. I simply was reverting an anonymous IP which came and removed it quietly, without providing an edit summary for such a drastic change [2] so that we can spot it in time and revert them. Your intervention to restore the IP's edit at the expense of both the consensus and what the provided sources do state, is disruptive, since you proceeded without providing any sources to back your edits, and you didn't even provide an adequate edit summary for your revert. (The "wow, no." is not even an appropriate edit summary when you are reverting someone else for such an important edit without consensus.)

The third-party independent sources attached to the said sentence on the article, contradict the edit both the IP and you were trying to make:

"…he is viewed as the first bishop of the Orthodox Church. As such, the Ecumenical Patriarch is frequently looked upon as the spiritual leader of the 300 million Orthodox Christians throughout the world."^[1]
"…Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, the spiritual leader of the world's 300 million Orthodox Christians…"^[2]
"The spiritual leader of the over 300 million Orthodox Christians worldwide, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew…"^[3]

References

^ Thomas E. Fitzgerald (1998). The Orthodox Church. Greenwood. p. 117. ISBN 978-0-275-96438-2. …he is viewed as the first bishop of the Orthodox Church. As such, the Ecumenical Patriarch is frequently looked upon as the spiritual leader of the 300 million Orthodox Christians throughout the world.
^ Andrew P. Holt; James Muldoon (2008). Competing Voices from the Crusades. Greenwood World. p. xiv. ISBN 978-1-84645-011-2. …Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, the spiritual leader of the world's 300 million Orthodox Christians…
^ Bron Taylor (10 June 2008). Encyclopedia of Religion and Nature. A&C Black. p. 158. ISBN 978-1-4411-2278-0. The spiritual leader of the over 300 million Orthodox Christians worldwide, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew…

If you seek to add disputed wording such as "some" like how you tried here, [3] then the WP:ONUS to support your edits, lies with you, not me. However, mind you, you will have to provide strong and substantial third party sources confirming that the Ecumenical Patriarch indeed isn't the spiritual leader of Eastern Orthodox Christians and you have to make sure that isn't simply an one-sided Russian view, but a broader view supported by the international community. Per WP:NPOV, Wikipedia reflects on the majority views, not on minority views.

Edit: Speaking of viewpoints, I have noticed that you have tagged the article [4] using the following edit summary "per talk" without however providing any insight or feedback about what the issue is in the article, nor on that edit summary, nor on this talk page. This makes more difficult for the other editors to try and understand where the problem is. For the necessary steps to be taken in addressing the issue, you will have to provide some input on the matter. --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 15:20, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Unfortunately, the discussion here has not concluded properly, as the User:Elizium23 has been indef banned just a day ago, and prior to their ban, they didn't bother to respond to this discussion here at all. Therefore, the tag which they have added to the article without providing any necessary explanation, neither on the edit summary, nor the talk page, has now been reverted, along with the rest of the POV-pushing edits. [5] --- ❖ SilentResident ❖ ^{(talk ✉ | contribs ✎)} 13:06, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

East Vs. West

Given the information present in the article and the statements made on this talk page, it seems a foregone conclusion that after the final split between the East and the West, the Orthodox did not think things through when it came to authority and jurisdiction. It reminds me of "The Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union" (Created: November 15, 1777, Ratified: February 2, 1781, Date effective: March 1, 1781,) and superseded on March 4, 1789 by the "United States Constitution" (Created: September 17, 1787, Presented: September 28, 1787, Ratified: June 21, 1788, Date effective: March 4, 1789). This is exactly why there are treaties and such between the Vatican and the Italian Republic. Nosehair2200 (talk) 15:21, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[Fitzgerald1998-1] Thomas E. Fitzgerald (1998). The Orthodox Church. Greenwood. p. 117. ISBN 978-0-275-96438-2. …he is viewed as the first bishop of the Orthodox Church. As such, the Ecumenical Patriarch is frequently looked upon as the spiritual leader of the 300 million Orthodox Christians throughout the world.

[HoltMuldoon2008-2] Andrew P. Holt; James Muldoon (2008). Competing Voices from the Crusades. Greenwood World. p. xiv. ISBN 978-1-84645-011-2. …Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, the spiritual leader of the world's 300 million Orthodox Christians…

[Taylor2008-3] Bron Taylor (10 June 2008). Encyclopedia of Religion and Nature. A&C Black. p. 158. ISBN 978-1-4411-2278-0. The spiritual leader of the over 300 million Orthodox Christians worldwide, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew…

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