Talk:Viktor Suvorov

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by the science and academia work group.

Russia: History / Politics and law Mid‑importance

	Russia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the history of Russia task force.
	This article is supported by the politics and law of Russia task force.

Pritzker Military Library Low‑importance

	This article is related to the Pritzker Military Museum & Library WikiProject. Please copy assessments of the article from the most major WikiProject template to this one as needed.Pritzker Military LibraryWikipedia:GLAM/PritzkerTemplate:WikiProject Pritzker-GLAMPritzker Military Library-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

Espionage Low‑importance

	Viktor Suvorov is within the scope of WikiProject Espionage, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of espionage, intelligence, and related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, or contribute to the discussion.EspionageWikipedia:WikiProject EspionageTemplate:WikiProject EspionageEspionage
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Archives

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by when more than 5 sections are present.

Include dates of fiction books

Mike Novikoff - I added the date of publication of "Snake-eater" because 2010 is more specific than the term "recent". I added Bulgaria because that was where it was first published. Parkwells (talk) 17:39, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May 2020 edit

Preserving here by providing this link; my rationale was: "rm non-defining cats; see WP:CATDEF". --K.e.coffman (talk) 23:22, 31 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A wrong name for the section

Working as columnist is surely not "personal life", so I changed that. ChalSeismo (talk) 09:40, 21 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Common name

He is known mostly by his pen name, i.e. Viktor Suvorov. Hence the title of this page. I fixed this accordingly. My very best wishes (talk) 23:03, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

OK that I am ok with also thank you for showing me a new link to look at.Thelostone41 (talk) 23:08, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If you disagree with any of my changes or something else, please do not revert everything, but make one change at a time. Are you familiar with writings by Suvorov? My very best wishes (talk) 23:15, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My favorite one is this one https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/viktor-suvorov/2439784/#edition=4234242.Thelostone41 (talk) 23:20, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Fringe

Academic consensus is clear his work is reject by Most academic historians and yes I am.Thelostone41 (talk) 23:17, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we have other pages (about his books and about the "controversy") where any criticism and discussion of his views should be and were already included. Here, we should just describe his views/claims very briefly and refer to other pages. Speaking about his ideas, they can be most briefly summarized as "In his Icebreaker, M Day and several follow-up books Suvorov argued that Stalin planned to use Nazi Germany as a proxy (the “Icebreaker”) against the West." That is why he called his book "Icebreaker" (the proxy). Is not it the case? I am not saying he was right or wrong, but that is what he claimed in the book. My very best wishes (talk) 23:31, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well as of now his views are briefly mentioned with the academic response to them. Just like for Grover Furr his views are represented and the academic consensus is also represented.Thelostone41 (talk) 00:21, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We have whole page with discussion of his views, Soviet offensive plans controversy. Here, we can only briefly say what his views are (e.g. his claim about the proxy/"Icebreaker" - that was in a paragraph you deleted -why?) and list of other authors who did and did not support his views. Note that the thesis about "proxy" was NOT disputed by many, only the suggestion about the motivations by Hitler, which is obviously a pure speculation, and it was described by Suvorov in his books as such. My very best wishes (talk) 01:39, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

After looking at the page right now can we just leave everything the way it is. The academic consensus view point and his viewpoint, are both represent can we just compromise on that leaving the page. The way it is so we're not arguing back and forth forever?Thelostone41 (talk) 02:15, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"The academic consensus" about what, exactly? Books by Suvorov include a lot of materials, claims, concepts, etc. Some of them are nothing new, others are more or less accepted, yet others are speculative and were a matter of debate. This is the reason we have a separate page about it. My very best wishes (talk) 13:48, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The academic consensus" about is views on ww2 just like the academic consensus on Grover Furr we show on his page.Thelostone41 (talk) 14:55, 12 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I was notified of this discussion on my talk page. From having reviewed the literature on this topic as part of drafting the relevant para in the Operation Barbarossa article, I agree that the article should note that the Icebreaker thesis is rejected by most historians. Saying that "His ideas were extensively debated by historians" in the lead is a bit of a cop-out given that his idea here is generally not considered credible by experts. The 'Works about World War II section' also dodges the issue somewhat. References establishing that Icebreaker is generally rejected are available in the last para of Operation Barbarossa#Soviet preparations. Nick-D (talk) 10:38, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]