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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Lethal injection article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Since it appears that both are quoted as the date for the Texas thing, I have added a parenthetical citing the History Channel. Andre (talk) 01:30, May 17, 2005 (UTC)
My feeling is that the History Channel is just plain wrong. The Texas Department of Criminal Justice [1][2][3], Clark County Prosecutor [4][5], Death Penalty Information Center [6] all say 1982. Evil Monkey∴Hello 02:24, May 17, 2005 (UTC)
Some more site that say 1982: Florida Corrections Commission [7], Texas Execution Information Center [8], Amnesty International [9][10]. 02:33, May 17, 2005 (UTC)
The History Channel is no kind of source. The Texas Department of Criminal Justice website is perfectly sufficient to demonstrate the 1982 date. DemiT/C 02:40, 2005 May 17 (UTC)
I don't know why the History Channel isn't a source. I've modified the page to say that the History Channel quotes the date as 1983. It does, and it's valid to point out the discrepancy. Andre (talk) 19:57, May 18, 2005 (UTC)
Okay then some more sources. Lethal injection: a stain on the face of medicine from the British Medical Journal[11] has 1982 as well as a source for that date (Anderson K. A more "palatable" way of killing; Texas carries out first execution by lethal injection. Time 1982 Dec 20:28.). How Stuff Works [12]. I'm sorry but IMHO the History Channel is just plain wrong. Evil Monkey∴Hello 00:26, May 19, 2005 (UTC)
And another one, this time a from the New York Times - it is their article from December 7, 1982 on the execution itself [13]. I will quote:
HUNTSVILLE, Tex., Tuesday, Dec. 7 -- The state of Texas injected Charles Brooks Jr. with a deadly combination of sedatives and drugs just after midnight today, making him the first condemned prisoner in the United States to die by lethal injection.
It doesn't matter how many sources state otherwise, we should report that the History Channel has it as the other date. Maybe it should only be a footnote, but it deserves to be reported. Andre (talk) 20:41, May 19, 2005 (UTC)
Should we report a discrepancy in a secondary source, casting doubts on primary sources. What about if I found Charles Brooks death certificate? Or his death warrant? Would we still need to report about the History Channel and what seems to be a mistype on their part? Evil Monkey∴Hello 05:29, May 20, 2005 (UTC)
Sorry, I see no need to report this here, as this article is about Lethal Injection and not the errors of The History Channel's fact-checkers. DemiT/C 06:43, 2005 May 20 (UTC)
"Sodium thiopental, in a dose high enough to cause death by itself: to put the victim to sleep" *assumes* what is explicitly controverted in the "Is Lethal Injection Painless?" section. It is, in fact, factually wrong. The dose of sodium pentathal is not sufficient to cause death by itself, although it may well cause unconsciousness long enough for the other two drugs to take effect. But if given along, the person will eventually wake up.
The effect of Potassium Chloride (#3) without (#2) would be to generate a lot of twitching and invoulantary tremors in the skeletal muscles. Together, the extra drugs speed the process and prevent convulsuions -- an executee who thrashes around makes it look like something cruel and unusual is happening to him.
In the sections where you talk about the controversy, please add discussion of the nitrogen asphyxiation method. Although mentioned earlier, it should be mentioned again each time it becomes relevant, as is the case with other proposed alternatives (such as a single large dose of barbiturates).
Why not give them an opiate OD instead of all these exotic drugs? Wouldn't it be cheaper too?
All over the world, people are being put under full anesthesia every day with opiates such as fentanyl, how hard can it be? The only reason that people survive anesthesia is because there is a respirator doing the breathing for them. Without a respirator, any sufficient dose will stop breathing and kill them. Opiates such as fentanyl can bring down an elephant but really any opiate would do, simple, cheap and effective. Tolerance would not matter since this only takes a bigger dose. Diamorphine(Heroin) would be great too.
Pros:
(1) It takes a much smaller dose than any of the other drugs. The average lethal dose of diamorphine is around 20 mg. The therapeutic window of opiates is much smaller than barbiturates, the lethal dose is much closer.
(2) The effect is much more clean and predictable than barbiturates because it works by a single mechanism: respiratory depression. The dose can be calculated easily.
(3) The effect is almost instant, in the range of seconds. The condemned will be out cold in 10 seconds, not breathing. Death will come within minutes after breathing is stopped. Noone is immune.
(4) There will be no pain or suffering, the condemned will not have time to get 'high' either. No inflammation of veins.
(5) The whole procedure is over in 10 minutes or less.
(6) If a vein is missed, it will only take a little longer than the 10 seconds, perhaps a minute or two.
(7) The price of such a dose would be much cheaper too.
So why is it that opiates are not used? It can only be because the public don't want to the condemned to die from what they think is a pleasant opiate overdose. But do these 10 seconds really matter that much?
M99 87.59.79.178 (talk)
I removed the tag that said that this does not represent a worldwide view of the subject, as mentions in other countries are mentioned. The vast majority of usages are in the US and China, and due to Chinese government secrecy, it is difficult to know too much about how it goes there. I will nonetheless try to expand it.
I'd like to add a subsection to the drug section talking about a new drug that is now being used in lethal injection cocktails. A combination of Fentanyl, Valium, and Cisatracurium has now been used for an execution in Nebraska and is scheduled to be used in Nevada in the execution of inmate Scott Dozier. I feel this information is important to add to the lethal injection article specifically under the drug section because these drugs are currently being used in the United States for lethal injection.[1]
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